Where to Draw the Line?

Marina Sirtis (Counseler Deanna Troy in STNG) and Brent

This is a subject I have touched before, also because a lot of times I have found myself right in the middle of those typical fan-meets-idol situations and because I come across a lot of fans…online.


This time the trigger was the question why Brent is so distant, especially on conventions, towards fans. The answer is, some fans have behaved badly around him and towards him in his personal life, like stealing roof tiles and making threatening calls to his girlfriend. Yeah, I can understand perfectly well why that made him cautious. Of course it’s true it’s only a small group of fans who behave badly, but how can you tell the bad apples apart from the rest of the apples, especially when they turn up in droves? So yeah, I think Brent’s kept distance and his refusal to do certain things, are justified.




I can climb on my soapbox again and whine and protest like I’ve done many times before. I choose not to do that. Instead I like to tell you about one of my own fan-meets-idol experiences. Actually, it wasn’t a fan-meets-idol situation, rather a fan-goes-to-idol’s-privat-house situation. The year was I think 2000. I was not alone, two other fans were with me. I was in London for the first time. Let me start at the start.

It was in the year the Queen musical had its first run. Because I was a much more devoted and active Queen fan at the time I signed up to join some other fans on a roadtrip to London. It would be my first time in London.
We booked three seats on a coach which went from Rotterdam to Calais. In Calais the coach would go on a ferry and cross the North Sea to Dover. In Dover we would board the coach again and continue our trip towards London. We left from Rotterdam in the evening and we’d be traveling all through the night. Arrival in London would be some time around 5 or 6 in the morning.

Not Freddie's house, but the entrance
to the Dominion

When we arrived on Victoria coach station no shops were yet opened and there was hardly anyone about. We had to kill the first two hours on the station, hanging sleepy in the uncomfortabel plastic chairs. Boredom soon drove us out of the station and into the city in search for the first Baker to open his doors and offer us fresh bread and coffee. I remember my first contact with London being smelly. I remember Victoria coach station very well, also since it didn’t really change in between then and now. I remember there being a vague plan that included getting the musical tickets which one of my fellow travellers had not managed to get beforehand. I also remember the plan to go to Freddie Mercury’s house where his good friend Mary (forgot her last name) still lived.

We went for breakfast and coffee first since the ticket booth at the venue didn’t open until 10 am. I vaguely remember arriving early for the tickets and managing to get tickets for the afternoon show around 3 pm. It would be possible, but it left us very little time to get back to the coach station to accept the travel back home. Yes, we only stayed one day, we had no hotel reservations. Anyway, we got our ticket and decided to travel to Kensington and find Freddie’s house. There’s really not that much to tell about, mainly because there is only one thing I remember. That one thing was for me the reason to write this blog post.

Here it comes:

We arrived at the house late in the morning or early in the afternoon. I don’t quite remember. There was a wall all around the house. Looking up, I could only see one window and nothing much more. On the brick wall there was writing; I could tell the wall had been repainted many times to cover all the writing. I realized that would never really stop. One of my fellow travellers produced a pen or sharpie, something to write with. They proceeded to leave a message on the tiled ground. God knows to who, Freddie had been dead for nearly 10 years and I’m sure they didn’t give a freakin’ damn about Mary. Both my travelling companions left their messages on the ground, then the writing implement was handed to me. I refused. I’m a decent person who doesn’t write on other people’s belongings, no matter how important or famous they might be. They tried to convince me it was all right, everybody did it. I refused again arguing that I found it impolite and indecent. They egged me on and on….I’m proud to say I stood my ground; I never signed the…uh….ground.

You see, I’ve got my principles. They’re only human. They got their talents, I got mine. I really don’t see why they should be more celebrated for being able to play an instrument, sing or for pretending to be someone else. I don’t see why their belongings should be covered in ridiculous writings or stolen because of who they are. I don’t have my picture taken with them, I hardly ever ask for autographs and I’ll hang back while they’re handling their more insisting fans.

Promo for Fresh Hell. Read next post if you want to know more

I’m a fan of their work. That is what I want, that is what I’ll take (I do pay for it). That is what I appreciate them for, but it doesn’t make me think they’re more worth because of it. They can’t put me down, because I don’t play an instrument or because I’m not a good singer or actor. They might contribute more to culture, but I contribute more to society. In the end, it all goes hand in hand. We should respect them and their privacy as much as we like ourselves and our privacy be respected. I know there’s a price to pay for being famous, but does that really mean that we can pull any string to have them dancing to our demands anyway we want? I don’t think so.

Respect were respect is due.

I would still like to meet Mr. Brent Spiner. I just want to be able to look him in the eyes and see for myself. It’s up to him how he wants to deal with me. I can only hope we will be equally respectful to each other.

This is funny:

>He was walking in my directions and I commented to those in the car
>that it looked like DATA (the walk was unmistakable). As I pulled the car out to
>finish the U-turn, he passed us and got into a small, compact car (like a Toyota)
>and pulled past me. I laughed so hard to see it *was* DATA! :-)

I don't know what would have amused me more ... seeing Brent Spiner on the street or seeing Data in a Toyota!

As a Star Trek fan, I appreciate this one as well:

Well, if that is how he feels then I guess it might be time to hang up the

Ol' Yellow Eyes and head on to other places where no man has gone before.

Source: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.tv.star-trek.next-gen/4MZi-IHoHPM

Back to the Start - Method of Research

Let’s start at the start for a change.


At an undefined age, it must have been in my twenties, I was aware of the fact that Queen Wilhelmina became queen when she was just a child. I knew the reason she was so young, was that her father, the former king, had died when Wilhelmina was just a child. I also knew that Wilhelmina’s mother, at that age name unknown, became queen-regent for her daughter. And of course I was aware that before Queen Beatrix her mother, Queen Juliana, had been queen right after Wilhelmina.

That was as much as I knew about the royal roots back into the 19th century.

I do vaguely remember finding out there had been other children who had all died before the king died. I do vaguely remember thinking that was rather tragic. That was as far I was willing to look back, at the time.

Now I need to tell you a little how I usually go about researching new interests.

It usually starts with one person, or a band. When I look back I can still pinpoint where and with who my interest started, except for Monty Python. When something, or more likely someone, has captured my attention I start rigorously researching/googling my new subject. I almost literally absorb the information. I read, watch, listen everything I can find or manage to get my hands on. My experience also is that forums are a great source for more detailled information. You can also dose yourself up on an unhealthy shot of discussion, speculation, gossip and fight. It gives you a good impression of the demographic that your subject attracts.

In some cases they grab me, I resist, they hold me, I give in and then start my research. That’s pretty much what happened with Alexander. I wasn’t looking for him, I was finding out about the kings that ruled this country.

The general start tends to be wikipedia or a website about the subject of interest, usually found with google. From there I google on and get into more and more detail, which on Internet is often not very detailled, unless when it’s about popular 20th or 21th century subjects. The real details can be found on fansites, for the above mentioned subjects. Other subjects need to be researched with the help of documentation (in libraries) and books (also libraries or bookshops). Alexander belongs to the latter categorie; the documentation and book research.

Obviously, Internet research is easier than documentation and book research. The Internet is pretty much everywhere available for me these days. Books have to be visited in libraries or bought in shops, which takes more effort, time, and in case of buying, more money. The researching costs me more money, but I don’t think Alexander is going to release an album or tour any time soon, or even at all. If that would happen, I would get a little scared (but it wouldn’t stop me buying tickets to go and see him).

Today it’s the 21st of June 2013. That means exactly 129 years ago Alexander died, age 32. Since I was going to write a character study for all of King Willem III’s family, I decided to kick that off today, on Alexander’s death day. Of course I’m going to start with Alexander.

Fandom or Artist?

I’ve been a fangirl since my 12th. The first and only time it really happened to me. I was just a kiddywink. It’s been so long ago; I can’t even remember how I came across Take That. Yes, I was a Take That fan.


I was obsessed. On Thursdays, after school, I would walk into the bookshop were they also sold papers and magazines. Every week I picked up the latest issues of several teen magazines, as long Take That was in it, which they always were. I collected all the interviews and put them together in some maps. I collected all the posters and redecorated my whole bedroom with them. There was nowhere a piece of original wallpaper to be seen. I nearly literally breathed, ate, drank and slept Take That. I could also shower in Take That, I had the shampoo, but that would have been a waste. I drove my mom up the Take That decorated walls. In 1996 it suddenly ended to my horror and grief. The boys had decided to quit. Looking back, I was losing interest at that point and the blow wasn’t as hard as I always pretended it was. Not even my mom realized that.

A period of quiet and piece came. I can remember lying on the couch listening to the Spice Girls wondering if they could be my next big thing. They weren’t and I was getting bored. It was then I realized I was addicted to fandom. Not the “belonging to a group”, but the means to escape reality for a bit. Luckily for me, mankind had been making popular music for quite a while and somewhere between 1996 and 1998 I invested all my energy into the Beatles. What I remember from that is my family making fun of me by saying things like: “No need to worry, she’ll keep the fanclub going!” I also remember frequent trips to the library to pick up everything about them I could find. I didn’t throw any of that out. I should make good of that new ladder I bought and take my Beatles stuff down.

Then 1998 happened and I went to college. It was the year of the very first Big Brother series and Dutch popular music. Watching Big Brother happened by default, because I was part of the Dutch flog, and listening to a lot of Dutch languaged music also happened by default, because it seemed that was all they were playing. I found a new love, Acda & de Munnik. A duo normally touring the Dutch theatres, but this time having a big hit. They were really good. They are still really good, but out of fashion and about 15 years older. WOW! It’s really been that long? After that came Queen, then Monty Python, then Kiefer Sutherland, then Jude Cole, and eventually John Mayer and Jason Mraz which brings us in the period 2005-2010.

The reason I just wrote this lengthy introduction to my reply to Becky is, I wanted to point out that it was easy for me to jump (not the shark, what the hell does Doctor Who have to do with sharks!?!?!?) ship. Even in my most faithful period I was not only listening to Take That, I was also listening to East 17, their enemies (you know press). I never restricted myself to just one artist or band or group, I always wanted to see the rest as well. Pretty much like me now wanting to also read Cantara’s book (thanks for the link) and checking out Stephen’s flaws for myself by maybe reading his blog since that is as close I’ll ever get to having a window into a Gyllenhaal world. For me it’s not hard to break the habit because they are many, but because they facilitate an ideal.

I find your (nearly) last sentence funny and ironic: “I think it’s easier to break the habit when it’s just one celeb.”

My biggest love in all my fandoms must be Queen, because it was with that band I did most of my growing up. Where I ocassionally listen to them or watch or read stuff about them, I pretty much let go; I hardly write about them. More John and Jason, because they’re more recent and my adventures were more exciting, but I have no clue what they’re doing right now. While you seem to have difficulty to let go of Jake. I must admit, he’s hot!

Summary: It’s missing a facilitator that binds me to fandom.

Now you might wonder why I can’t dream about the boy next door, for instance. The reason is those celebs are easy to avoid meeting to ever getting to know them. I can attribute the flaws, the once I can deal or work with. I can decide how they will develop (or not). I can’t with real people. They’re real, out of my control and it’s slightly embarrassing to fantasize about people I personally know.

Yesterday I started reading Cantara's book. I just finished the Babygate chapter.